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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.27 09:03:57 -
[1] - Quote
considering they not long ago pretty much buffed them...
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.27 09:49:55 -
[2] - Quote
Otso Bakarti wrote:Please, make others' enterprise less profitable, or at least make mine more so! It's only fair!
Though, I don't do anything remotely like these other people, and never go where they are, the
very thought that they're there making ISK just bugs me. So, CCP, take your million dollar machine
and turn it toward my inclinations and personal preferences. You know the Great Gaming God is on my side!
no its the fact that they are making the most amount of isk while undocked in the game with practically 0 risk. on a system based on risk vs reward its totally not within that system
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.27 09:56:08 -
[3] - Quote
Otso Bakarti wrote:Ever hear the saying, "Mind your own business?" Or, in this world of the Duly Entitled, are you queen?
Oh. Incursions are content created by CCP. It is their game after all. I guess they can create content, too,
if they WANT to.
This thread looks like it's caught a lot of folks that don't have enough to do.
you sound very bitter whats the crack?
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.27 10:16:04 -
[4] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:2Sonas1Cup wrote:Or drastically drop their payouts not the point of killing them but to a more balanced level compared to other highsec activities.
Highsec Incursions payout WAY too much for the risk and time you take.
Many people run incursions to plex accounts log out for the month.
Theres little to no incentive to do anything else in the game once you start running incursions, you wont stop, and you will not do anything else other than your casual pvp on a random alt when the opportunity arises.
Incursions are a decease, they are killing/killed a major part of the game, took the need of doing and trying different things to make isks.
Hell theres not even a reason to leave highsec anymore, whats the incentive of null when you can make as much or even more in the safety of highsec?
Please put an end to incursions, its been far too long already, sanshas must go. I don't run incursions, but I have no issues with other players enjoying them, if you want to apply some risk go and war dec some of their corps or gank them, or get into an Incursion with a logi and let them die, but for the love of god stop whining about them because you are incapable of interdicting them, HTFU or WOW is more suited for you!
you know most incursion groups tell you not to bother joining if you are wardecced, your argument is pretty invalid, incursion groups are aware of how to avoid the little risk involved.
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.27 11:05:54 -
[5] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:Yesterday we barely hit 40.000 players online (for a few minutes), last thing CCP is going to do is ever so slightly p*ss people off to have even less people online. On top of that (your OP sounds like a whiny with tears filled one) if you don't like Incursions, *do* something about it (n game). It's a sandbox, kick over their castle or are you to cowardly for that? 
that doesnt make sense are you implying ccp is scared of its players and that balances should be based on not ******* other players off?
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.27 12:03:42 -
[6] - Quote
i mean clearly is an issue when nullsec incursion dont get run because highsec is safer and the payouts dont warrant the risk.
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.27 12:14:38 -
[7] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:But the high sec version of incursions ARE unbalanced. They would be less so if incursion rats spawned on gates and strangled high sec travel and commerce like they do in low and null or if CONCORD was deactivated in incursion constellations. Low and null incursions are balanced, because no CONCORD.
i actually only found out about incursion rats not spawning on gates in high yesterday, after being instapopped in a blingy ishtar on a null incursion gate i thought no rats on gates in high was a bit meh.
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.27 12:29:33 -
[8] - Quote
i too want to see youtube video of blown up machariel/vindi and logi fleet in highsec 
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.27 12:56:14 -
[9] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Lan Wang wrote:i mean clearly is an issue when nullsec incursion dont get run because highsec is safer and the payouts dont warrant the risk.
People do not generally do incurisons in null sec because it is increased risk (mainly because moving to it) and sigificant hassle compared to their normal activities, once in 0.0 we had an incursion appear nearby, some people wanted to run it, but many people did not have suitable ships and found it too much hassle to set up for it, so nothing came off it. Its basically more to do with people setup to do a certain type of PvE and not keen to go to the extra effort and risk to run them. But thats the fault of hisec isn't it, stifles yawn... Who said anything about "fault"? An unbalanced thing is unbalanced no matter who it benefits. The current situation is basically lvl 5 missions all over again. CCP broke lvl 5s in a patch, which allowed people to run them in high sec (if you picked the right agent and had the standings with the right 'near highsec" lvl 5 agents to decline ones not in high sec). People got used to them and CCP didn't fix the issue for a long time. Then CCP finally got around to fixing them because lvl 5 missions were never intended to be in high sec, and the high sec people screamed bloody murder and "why u nerf us!!?!". Why ccp didn't learn that you can't put overly lucrative farmable pve in high sec after that I just don't know. But they did, while making "better paying" low and null incursions that actually pay LESS than high sec incursions because high sec is safe enough to spawn communities of multi-billion isk pirate incursion boats. IMO the entire incursion thing need to be rethought, but I know that's a low priority for ccp because the don't seem to much care about balance among PVE activities. This is a classic rant, the thing was that some of us wanted to run challenging missions as a team, level 4's are actually a laugh when you do it with a small fleet but only a very few missions are a challenge and to do that one has to shoot all the triggers, but level 5's in hisec were for a brief period a lot of fun for us, and then the risk reward player killers did their whining and they got them removed from hisec . Thanks for your work in making PvE boring for us...
whats broing? the fact you cant make nullsec income with concord protection? if your bored then move to somewhere more fun, its not really hard is it
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.27 13:08:56 -
[10] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
This is a classic rant, the thing was that some of us wanted to run challenging missions as a team, level 4's are actually a laugh when you do it with a small fleet but only a very few missions are a challenge and to do that one has to shoot all the triggers, but level 5's in hisec were for a brief period a lot of fun for us, and then the risk reward player killers did their whining and they got them removed from hisec . Thanks for your work in making PvE boring for us...
whats broing? the fact you cant make nullsec income with concord protection? if your bored then move to somewhere more fun, its not really hard is it Concord does not exist in null sec are you some sort of wombat? There was some nice missions that required team effort and some people whined and got them moved to lowsec, for a brief period some people had a lot of fun doing them as a group, but people whined and the fun was removed from us all because people could not find anything to kill in lowsec because they killed off anyone who went in there.. And people now do level 4's as a group every so often and have fun blowing up the damsel, or setting all the triggers off for something challenging in PVE in hisec... EDIT: The correct thing to have done was give some extra reward for the ones on lowsec, but CCP are not clever at times...
you are the only wombat for not even understanding a word i just said
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.27 13:24:31 -
[11] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
This is a classic rant, the thing was that some of us wanted to run challenging missions as a team, level 4's are actually a laugh when you do it with a small fleet but only a very few missions are a challenge and to do that one has to shoot all the triggers, but level 5's in hisec were for a brief period a lot of fun for us, and then the risk reward player killers did their whining and they got them removed from hisec . Thanks for your work in making PvE boring for us...
whats broing? the fact you cant make nullsec income with concord protection? if your bored then move to somewhere more fun, its not really hard is it Concord does not exist in null sec are you some sort of wombat? There was some nice missions that required team effort and some people whined and got them moved to lowsec, for a brief period some people had a lot of fun doing them as a group, but people whined and the fun was removed from us all because people could not find anything to kill in lowsec because they killed off anyone who went in there.. And people now do level 4's as a group every so often and have fun blowing up the damsel, or setting all the triggers off for something challenging in PVE in hisec... EDIT: The correct thing to have done was give some extra reward for the ones on lowsec, but CCP are not clever at times... you are the only wombat for not even understanding a word i just said You make your own safety in null sec I thought everyone understood that, but obviously not, take Deklin for example that is safer than hisec, its remote and protected by the ultimate 0.0 war machine, behind loads of other regions that attackers have to get past to attack. That is the only place in the game where you have a certain amount of security, OK certain constellations in Cobalt Edge are pretty damn good in terms of being difficult to get to. I have been in null, get it... It was a great shame that engaging team orientated PvE content was removed from hisec due to the whining by HTFU types.
you still dont understand what im talking about, simply you want to earn similar income of that of nullsec pve but want the protection of concord ie..in highsec lots of isk and lots of safety, you claim you are bored of highsec pve because they took lvl 5's out but yet you seem reluctant to actually move out of highsec to find the fun again
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.27 13:36:47 -
[12] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:The entire risk vs reward argument is flawed. The fastest way to make ISK in the game, in terms of ISK per hour is station trading. It carries absolutely zero risk of losing a ship, as you never need to undock.
Given the existence of station trading, I see nothing wrong with incursions.
not really you face pvp in market trading daily, you dont in incursions
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.27 14:12:17 -
[13] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Aladar Dangerface wrote:
However if you want me to go all the way back i will; Ending incusrions would be really bad for the game, people in high sec should be able to earn isk, however someone should be able to earn more if they are willing to put more at risk.
Fun fact, the incursion runners making the most ISK also put more at risk than the ones putting less. Get a low bling fleet and compare their income to a full blinged out fleet and you will see putting more at risk affect the total payout. What you want is not "more at risk" but "same at more risk".
what risk?
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.27 14:27:13 -
[14] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Aladar Dangerface wrote:
However if you want me to go all the way back i will; Ending incusrions would be really bad for the game, people in high sec should be able to earn isk, however someone should be able to earn more if they are willing to put more at risk.
Fun fact, the incursion runners making the most ISK also put more at risk than the ones putting less. Get a low bling fleet and compare their income to a full blinged out fleet and you will see putting more at risk affect the total payout. What you want is not "more at risk" but "same at more risk". what risk? Ganks, fail logi, falling asleep. The same stuff as miners, freighter, mission runners. The 6 bill ship still has to be in space to earn any ISK and LP. The fact that very few people try to gank those 120k EHP piniata is not the fault of the dude flying the ship in the first place. Hell you can even know where they are via the game interface instead of having the camp a gate waiting for them.
"falling asleep" you just made that up because you didnt have anything else to add.
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.27 16:55:49 -
[15] - Quote
Daerrol wrote:Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:I think its interesting to postulate what ccp would think of this.
If they nerf the insane isk incursion runners can make, some will cry and leave.
But they nerfed IsoBoxing and same thing, they still did it.
Now would ccp care if even dare say 25% of all incursioners unsubbed?
Wait for it....
THEY ALL PLEX ANYWAYS.
Now i am in economics 202 so i get someone paid for plex blah blah blah, yet still, those incursioners ARENT PUTTING THEIR REAL LIFE CASH INTO CCP.
So why WOULD ccp care if they balanced the insane isk they can make with basically zero risk (aside from falling asleep like some bear pointed out lmao)
Seriously, if ccp nerfs hisec incurion isk to make it in line with risk/reward and some bears cry and stop plexing their alts, i dont think ccps bottom line would be affected at all. If anything it would please the masses/rest of eve. I was going to write a long reply to this inane statement but I'll keep it short. You realize CCP makes more money off accounts that are activated via plex than those which are paying a subscription fee, yes? If PLEX were to lose liquidity or worse crash in vaoue, no one would PLEX for ISK.
How can ccp make money from people using isk for plex? People buy plex with rl cash so they make money from people who spend on plex not incursuon runners or freeplayers
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.28 09:08:12 -
[16] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:
So ... can this be ended now?
There is nothing more to add.
Opinions are irrelevant.
What matters is cold, hard reality,
of which details can be found spread out in this thread.
At least for those who are able to see beyond opinionated bullshitting.
There is no sane way to interfere with incursions at all.
Popping the mom does not count, because the mom symbolises the end.
Once it's gone the incursion ends and all the farming has been done already.
Furthermore do greedy people, who deliberately not shoot the mom,
actually hurt the ingame reality from the perspective of "lore",
because they deliberately let millions of people get zombified by the Sanshas.
What CCP should do is cut the income down to a quarter and then see
who actually runs them for the "fun" and not for the "greed".
That would be a good step to determine what should be done next.
Dare I say we'd see a huge drop in fleets running incursions ...
... because it is highly likely most people mistake satisfying their ego through isk with "fun".
All relevant details can be found with in this thread.
Anything else I forgot?
and people might start moving to other profitable parts of space to make isk instead of living in the incursion bubble where they dont need to actually go anywhere because highsec safety and the best money available
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.28 10:13:11 -
[17] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Solecist Project wrote:*sighs*
Because it exists for literally everything else that is being done in space,
except AFK cloaking, which is a completely different matter and not the topic.
(AFK cloaking looks like it is going to be addressed, btw)
As you already know by reading through the thread,
there is absolutely no sane way to interfere.
Wardeccing is pointless, as they will drop corp and reform
or simply stay in NPC corps.
Suicide ganking is pointless, as there is no sane way
to stop an incursion fleet.
As baltec1 pointed out, it's not trivial to shoot down a fleet
of battleships with logi support.
The cost of doing so would far outweigh any potential benefit
and still would not make anyone actually leave the field.
It has been answered already.
You are asking the wrong question.
It's not "Why should that capacity exist only in the case of an incursion?".
This makes me wonder if you actually play the game.
It's "Why should incursions be the only thing that can't reasonably be interfered with by players?"
Because ... as has been written already ... it's simply not doable.
Incursion runners can run their incursions day and night, all day long.
If there was a sane way to interfere then people would obviously be doing it. The question you ask is actually simple to answer. The answer is, if other activities used similar fleet compositions they would be just as difficult and unfeasible to interfere with. Mining doesn't prohibit such a composition. Level 4 missions don't prohibit such a composition. They are highly unnecessary and as such don't occur save rare occasions if at all, but doable to the same effect. I'm aware a tanked BS group is non-trivial to take down, especially with logi support, which seems to be the point of such a configuration. So to the question of why incursions are unique in regard to their inability to be interfered with, it's because they more or less mandate resilient configurations. So I ask as a hypothetical, if I run such a config while missioning, does that create the need to alter missions to allow additional interference? The fact that the content mandates you harden up reducing player capacity to interfere is certainly a reason for reducing income because a factor of risk is all but removed, I just don't see the connection to otherwise changing the rules of how ships work together. To me this is no different to mining in a max tank skiff philosophically; you won't lose your ship unless someone is really determined despite the cost or you make a really dumb mistake.
mining and missioning doesnt supply near as much isk as incursions for the effort, miners and missioners do also look to other parts of space for better minerals and better missions in which case they are risking protection for the better payout, incursion runners dont need to because they dont need to take the risk because highsec pays them the most under the undefeatable safety feature (concord). again incursion runners dont need to leave highsec to make the best isk in the game which is wrong.
incursions are the only thing that dont scale like every other activity in eve, payouts in highsec 31mil isk, nullsec 45mil isk, 14mil isk difference between taking hardly any risk to taking the most risk in the game, that doesnt scale nearly enough to warrant jumping to null for an incursion. damn incursions in highsec dont even have rats on the gates
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:12:54 -
[18] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Because those figures are wrong and another poster already proved just how few people can efficiently run incursions.
Nobody has posted any facts here to back up your argument. Average income from anoms is 60 mil/hr, incursion income of 120 mil/hr is not unrealistic. Dracvlad wrote:
But why are you getting so uptight, soon you will have the new structures that will enable you to have mission agants in null sec, that's great news for you guys isn't it?
We have no details yet on this system. Your figures are totally wrong, you are understating the anoms by a major amount, why do you keep lying all the time?
not really an ishtar in null will get around 20mil a tick give or take, 1 tick = 20mins, x 3 = 60mil an hour, with a carrier you can get to around 30+mil an hour = thats 90mil an hour for risking 2.5bil worth of slow a$$ carrier, which get lost quite often in null
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:18:27 -
[19] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Your figures are totally wrong, you are understating the anoms by a major amount, why do you keep lying all the time?
You dont leave highsec and have never run anoms in dek. Yet you are calling the people who have figured out how to squeeze the most isk out of every activity a liar? I have run anoms in 0.0 and got a lot more than 60m an hours, if that is squeezing the most ISK out of that activity then you are either a fool or a liar, I was doing 110m an hour in Cobalt Edge and that ignored the selling on of escalations...
so there you have it null escalations vs highsec safety incursions = same isk/hour, clearly not balanced huh, what were you using to make 110mil an hour?
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.28 12:31:21 -
[20] - Quote
sorry meant anoms, escalations bring a substantial increase in risk, baltecs numbers are right for a single char, obviously using 2 chars will bring you more isk, add 2 chars to your incursions and boom you've doubled your income, it works both ways
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.28 13:21:52 -
[21] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Lets get to the meat of this issue ratting carriers are cheaper then bling incursion boats designed to win competitions against other bling boats. are bling incursion boats cheaper than bling ratting carriers? that is the question Why would you use a bling fitted carrier?
to maximise your isk/hr, same as what they do in machs in highsec?
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.28 15:36:47 -
[22] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:
Fact you can make enough money to live and thrive in NS but you sacrafice security and many other things.
Fact you can make enough money to live and thrive in WH but you sacrafice security and many other things.
Fact you can make enough money to live and thrive in LS but you sacrafice security and many other things.
Fact you make too much money in HS incursions with full protection from concord and all the necessities right at your door.
changed that a little for ya bud
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Lan Wang
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Posted - 2015.04.28 17:37:46 -
[23] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Danalee wrote:Thread is about HISEC incursions. Please stop trolling/derailing or I'll be forced to report you. D.  Thread is over, HS incursions are fine as they are, nothing forces you to do them, nothing prevents you from doing them. We can move on to the next nullbear tearjerker anytime now I think 
its only over because you want it to be, and that does not solve the issue
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.28 18:21:34 -
[24] - Quote
i dont know why you would oppose this, you said its not about the isk so removing nullbears from incursions would suit you you more, wait times would decrease significantly and you can run incursions till your little hearts content
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.29 08:44:06 -
[25] - Quote
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:2Sonas1Cup wrote:Otso Bakarti wrote:Please, make others' enterprise less profitable, or at least make mine more so! It's only fair!
Though, I don't do anything remotely like these other people, and never go where they are, the
very thought that they're there making ISK just bugs me. So, CCP, take your million dollar machine
and turn it toward my inclinations and personal preferences. You know the Great Gaming God is on my side! I dont what? I run incursions since 2011 when they came out mr. With 2 or 3 accounts, lately only 2 or 1 depends. I know every single thing about incursions and how bad they truly are. (in terms of how much they destroy the real eve) Im only here to expose them because Im tired of this "eve" of today and miss the old one, the one without incursions. So basically, you earned a shitload off of incursions and now you're sick of them and are doing them less and less... so now is the time to start complaining? So other people can't earn that much now that you aren't doing them full-time anymore? Give me a break :p I agree about the risk vs reward thing, but it just seems kind of lame how first you exploit it for years and then start complaining about it.
its not the first time this discussion has been brought up and i doubt it will be the last
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.29 11:22:58 -
[26] - Quote
you make it sound like you put effort into defending when really you just have to wait like 15secs then concord deals with everything then you can go back to the highest paid safest activity in eve, its not really about ganking its about risk and reward compared to the likes of nullsec which doesnt earn as much as highsec incursions.
if someone earns more than the guy risking more then obviously there is an imbalance and highsec incursions are not balanced with the rest of the activities in eve
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Lan Wang
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Posted - 2015.04.29 15:22:28 -
[27] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Putting 30B+ into an engagement that can go sideways if people aren't doing their jobs is risk
losing ships to NPCs is not risk, it is incompetence
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.29 20:31:23 -
[28] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:B)Allow players with High Sansha standings to both not be targeted by the rats, and not suffer CONCORD. This would be the best solution possible, as it would put power in the players hands to enforce rules, create entities, etc. It also has potential to get lots of would be high-sec antagonists to venture to Stain for a while to get those standings..which of course creates more avenue for content to grow.
i think this is just a great idea in general
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Lan Wang
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Posted - 2015.04.30 14:17:12 -
[29] - Quote
it amazes my how you fight the incursion corner here by enforcing that incursions are risky enough and do not need changed in highsec then on the other hand you put a F&I thread up suggesting that security should be disrupted in incursion zones to encourage pvp by turning off gate and station guns along with concord.
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.04.30 15:27:02 -
[30] - Quote
well buffing nullsec would just mean you would have to also buff lowsec etc and it would be much more work to buff the whole of nullsec so it balances better with 1 activity in highsec which is overpaid, simply increasing risk to incursions to warrant the isk made would be sufficient enough (such as marios idea in f&i)
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Lan Wang
Stillwater Corporation
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Posted - 2015.05.01 11:02:16 -
[31] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:
They are if you use a several billion ship in highsec blitzing only the best LP available and turning down slow missions vs a normal T2 fit in Null running not the best anoms. They aren't if you take the average lvl 3 income.
800 mil, which is more than half the cost of a carrier which is needed to hit the best anom income.
my carrier was around 2.7bil and got me 90mil an hour in nullsec using 1 account in an upgraded system, ishtar was pushing around 60mil an hour
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Posted - 2015.05.01 14:42:41 -
[32] - Quote
Iam The Flash wrote:oh shut up
oh look its mr grumpy
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Posted - 2015.05.06 07:55:37 -
[33] - Quote
ashley Eoner wrote:You need ONE carrier one dreadnaught and a couple other ships. Bammo +800m an hour with less effort than incursions.
You could in theory do it without the carrier but it'd require a lot more effort.
last time i was in a wormhole it was 2 carriers, 6 dreads and half a dozen lokis to make probably not even 800mil an hour (wont even go into the cost of the caps and lokis), less effort than anchoring up and shooting the tags?, pretty much anyone can do incursions risk free, you dont even need to watch dscan, good luck finding a nice wormhole where you can just rock in and make lots of isk without any risk and minimal skills, dont forget the effort of rolling the wormhole to make it semi safe and the fact you dont have any local to notice any reds coming in, the logistical efforts of not having any markets or stations nearby, lose a capital in a wormhole and you cant just autopilot in your shuttle to jita to buy another one. wormholes are just 1 big massive effort in every situation and cannot be compared to incursions, wormholers sacrifice a serious amount of benefits/services to make isk and risk a hella lot more.
Cipher Jones wrote:Incursions dont even come close to wormholes as far as income.
i really wish people would stop comparing wormholes, clearly you have never lived in a wormhole to understand
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Posted - 2015.05.06 15:09:51 -
[34] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Inquisitor Tyr wrote:Hey guys!
...
Stop complaining about systems that effectively put isk in your wallets. Or would you like CCP to make something more interesting again ? Confirming drifters should regularly show up in incursions and doomsday carebear loot piniata's. This would be an acceptable risk offset to how incursions are simply being farmed right now. Truly, why bother going to null when all that delicious ISK is just waiting for you to hop into an incursion channel in hisec... Nerf incursions. That is all. F
kinda dont agree with that, i dont believe adding more npc contact is actually adding any risk to the situation
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Posted - 2015.05.06 17:35:28 -
[35] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:I thought EVE was supposed to be harsh. Let's pretend for a sec that the usual suspects are actually right about high sec being safer than null (demonstrably false). If that were the case, why should the rewards be better in null? It's ******* harsh, remember? You want the freedom to be a douche, you pay the price for it. You work harder and fight over scraps. The easy money should be in the safer places. Why do you people have it so backwards in your twisted little minds? There should be no incursions in null and very few in low sec. CCP should move level fives back into high sec as well. Mr Epeen
i usually have to agree with what you say as you usually talk sense but i dont know what happened here. why put effort in to fight over scraps your idea just kills eve
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Posted - 2015.05.07 08:56:20 -
[36] - Quote
Kamala wrote:You are asking CCP to remove high level group PvE content from the most populated area of the game. You might as well ask them to cut off their own genitalia.
not really just adjust payouts so they are inline with other activities, or let sanshas loyalists shoot them in the warzones they farm 23.5/7
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Posted - 2015.05.07 09:22:52 -
[37] - Quote
Kamala wrote:Ah, I must have misread the bits where the OP said "end highsec incursions" and "please put an end to incursions".
well thats OP's drastic idea when really it just needs balanced a bit better, you would have realised that if you read a bit past the OP
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Posted - 2015.05.08 08:03:22 -
[38] - Quote
Malcaz wrote:All of the proposed measures would make the entire incursion mechanic useless and nobody would do it. It is impossible to rat in large groups of multibillion isk battleships in null sec in such defined areas, it would be a ganker feast. So then you might as well remove incursions from the game altogether.
tl;dr of the rest of the the rest of the thread: nerf everything but nullsec ratting into garbage to the point where nobody would do it anymore. Good idea for making people enjoy eve and retaining players.
I agree fully to make nullsec PVE worth doing, but do not nerf all the activities that other people enjoy doing.
Also, incursion income is not as high as the OP says. It can be between 100-250 mil, 100 is when you have to run crappy sites because there are no good sites or because you cannot compete with other fleets that are running the good sites. It averages out to being a lot lower than 250 mil a hour. The OP is exaggerating for dramatic effect. Compared to wormhole ratting, incursioning is not worth the time at all, so I only resort to it when it is the only income available to me.
your basing enjoyment on isk generation which is wrong
"It is impossible to rat in large groups of multibillion isk battleships in null sec in such defined areas" - dozens of carriers, machariels, ishtars rat in null daily people even use supers to rat, however they take the risk and people die, supers die, thing is with the group things in null is people dont need groups of people to rat, people can rat solo in carriers. the risk is so much higher than incursions and if your saying that people wont do incursions if you change a slight thing and add i miniscule of risk to the equation then (changing it so someone has a risk of losing a ship) its clear that its only done for the massive isk payout and thats just greed and a clear unbalance.
Null income is fine, every other activity is also fine (bar fw missions) its highsec incursions which are the issue here. why overhaul a whole part of space just so highseccers can enjoy making lots of isk with no risk when you can just nerf the core issue
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Posted - 2015.05.08 11:05:25 -
[39] - Quote
i do play the game how i like it and i like bitching about things that are not balanced, as for bitching if we didnt ***** then you highsec carebears would just carry on with your overpaid activities and complain about nerfing ganking or some other thing which affects your isk making agenda
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Posted - 2015.05.11 12:34:23 -
[40] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Amen to all of that. I'd love to see Sansha replaced by some form of "Drifter Incursions".
that doesnt solve the issue though because it will just get farmed the same way current incursions are
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Posted - 2015.05.11 17:02:23 -
[41] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:One thing which I've learned from MMORPGs - PvPers are the worst whiners and they'll whine forever, they just need to change a "reason" from time to time to do so (common "reasons": lack of PvP, lack of PvP balance, no rewards for PvP, rewards are too high for low effort, PvP queues are too long because low performing people left due to rewards nerf, complete lack of PvP - again - and so on).
Incursions are minuscule part of the game compared to other activities in EVE - at any given time there are not more than 200 people doing them. Whole incursions community is 1-2k people out of 350k at best. Incursions don't affect economy on major scale, they don't change anything - but they work perfectly as red cloth for a bull i.e. they distract whiners from really important in-game issues. Just like governments use "war on drugs" theme to distract society from actually important issues (like ineffective governments). Remove incursions - and whiners may accidentally find actually good and important reason to whine.
So you better accept the fact that it's very suitable for CCP to have incursions and they'll be here in present state for a very long time.
Hmm 1-2k people huh, according to the income graph that was posted earlier incursions income was about half of nullsec income, that just shows the incursions unbalanced and overpaid if 1-2k pilots can make around half of what the whole of nullsec can
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Posted - 2015.05.13 08:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:SilentAsTheGrave wrote:If high sec Incursions bother you so much; why don't you start suicide tanking them? You do it to freighters that are 100% empty "for the lulz" so why don't you go after them? Afraid of a target that can shoot back? And this is what happens when someone doesn't read through the thread ... ... and believes he magically had an original thought no one came up with. And it's a hater too.
you get to the stage where you are just repeating the same info to new people who dont care to look through all the previous pages
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Posted - 2015.05.14 11:20:15 -
[43] - Quote
leavemymomalone idiot wrote:end incursions?
dont be stoopid, asking mummy and daddy to step in because you think its risk free isk does not make it true, its a sand box not a theme park. you dont like something do as we do. Fix it yourself.
i was born from the desire to stop arseholes killing the mom too early, our fleet of pilots never show up on killmails, we fly in and jam the logi pilots and let the sansha do the killing,
ending incursions would end the point of my existence and all the other pilots in band of blackbirds.
you think its risk free isk, i am here to tell you i know its not risk free.
The payments of isk and lp are not too large if anything i would say buff the payments. your going to need the isk.
buff the payments? are you actually being serious
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Posted - 2015.05.14 11:27:50 -
[44] - Quote
I would love to see some evidence of your endeavours, jamming logi is still aggression so where are your kill/death mails please
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Posted - 2015.05.14 18:23:20 -
[45] - Quote
Kaye Kaye wrote:This thread should go to the Game Ideas Wasteland.
Note: Same type of junk call outs got Level 5 missions moved to Low Sec, which effectively just removed them from the game. Why not just pull any and all income activity from HS and let the game die a horrible death since you don't get your play style of PVP satisfied.
There is NOTHING you will be able to change in this game PERIOD that will get non-PVP players to PVP, it's just not going to happen in any meaningful numbers to be worth the change. They are completely different game styles.
I am surprised CCP hasn't learned by now that nerfing High Sec only means less things to do in game and less income for CCP.
Here's a thought.... Why not make more interesting things to do in game that costs a metric ton of ISK to do it - tihngs that don't involved nerfing someones play style, and add value to the game.
You know highsec isnt the only place in eve, lvl 5's dead? Dont think so they just added risk (fixed a bug) now the only people who do them are the people who want to take the risk to make the isk, as said why buff everything else when you can sort the root of the problem
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Posted - 2015.05.15 10:36:33 -
[46] - Quote
sorry but what exactly is "useful" about incursion payouts? its only useful to an incursion runner to pad a wallet its not like they have to buy lots of ships every week to replace lost ships
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Posted - 2015.05.19 14:49:14 -
[47] - Quote
Jax Arr wrote:Sure you can run plexes and maybe hit a jackpot and get a bil or so in loots, or you could only get the overseer effects
hey you didnt mention the silly jumps through nullsec in a 1.7bil marauder to do the 10/10 escalations
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Posted - 2015.05.22 08:02:35 -
[48] - Quote
Silver Price wrote:just because you don't like something in eve, doesn't mean you have to hate on it.
yes we do otherwise the game would never change and everything would remain broken
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Posted - 2015.05.22 14:43:29 -
[49] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:Vic Jefferson wrote:Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
I live in fountain now and i dont make billions a week risk free like hisec incursioners. It aint fair.
What about closing the Mom ship farming? Where they keep it alive and not kill it to farm more.
What if it like had a set time limit you either had to kill it or it left across new eden somewhere else?
Thats gotta make incursions less of an easy iskfarm and makes sense?
Can we agree?
Another Brave Newbie and future FozzieSov resident railroaded by our corrupt and self-serving HiSec incursion system. Seriously, I have the utmost respect for brave and their mission. I really hope things turn around and they make Sov work for you and fun groups like Brave. You should convince enough of your Brave people to either post in this thread or raise these issues to their CSM representative. The quoted Newbie most definitely doesn't represent the opinion of Brave Newbies Inc.
i dont see anywhere where she claimed to represent the opinion of brave what on earth are you talking about?
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Posted - 2015.11.19 14:51:02 -
[50] - Quote
+1 supported
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Posted - 2015.11.19 23:18:52 -
[51] - Quote
Valacus wrote:The one non-PvP activity you actually have to have a group for(not just multi-boxing 3 accounts) and you want to get rid of it? Should we just call the game multi-box online? If Incursions really make that much ISK, then go run them yourself. It's the one PvE activity that requires a fleet. What's wrong with that having a decent payout? Of course that should pay more than soloing Lvl 4s. It should pay more than most things in high sec, if not everything.
shouldnt pay more than everything else in the game though should it? and it shouldnt be more worthwhile running them in highsec than anywhere else
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Posted - 2015.11.19 23:41:30 -
[52] - Quote
why do you need 3 accounts to live in null?
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Posted - 2015.11.20 09:32:09 -
[53] - Quote
Kinete Jenius wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Valacus wrote:The one non-PvP activity you actually have to have a group for(not just multi-boxing 3 accounts) and you want to get rid of it? Should we just call the game multi-box online? If Incursions really make that much ISK, then go run them yourself. It's the one PvE activity that requires a fleet. What's wrong with that having a decent payout? Of course that should pay more than soloing Lvl 4s. It should pay more than most things in high sec, if not everything. shouldnt pay more than everything else in the game though should it? and it shouldnt be more worthwhile running them in highsec than anywhere else This has to be a troll. Level 4s in highsec make more an hour per character than incursion fleets. Pirate missions make more per hour. FW missions make more an hour than incursions. WHs make many times more an hour than incursions. Hell AFKtars in null make as much an hour as some incursion runners. PI done right can make far more isk per hour of effort than incursions. Station trading alts make more per hour than you could ever imagine getting in an incursion. Incursions in low and null makes far more an hour than in highsec. You're so wrong you can't even get that last simple concept right. I can keep going on but really what's the point? Lan Wang wrote:why do you need 3 accounts to live in null?
nullsec pay is fine you just feel incursions are more worthwhile because the risk is far less which makes them more worthwhile.
highsec incursions pay far too much for the risk involved If you feel that way then bring the risk yourself. You can do that you know. AtramLolipop wrote:Don't be silly incursions are run by a small group of players, and i bet bottom dollar most of them are accounts of people who play in null sec mainly. changing HS incursions won't change a thing, people want a safe way to make isk to experience the game by other means. My experience is that there are elements of null present in incursions. It's nice to be able to take a break from the hectic activity of null while still experiencing group content.
lol no they do not!
explain how you calculate isk/hr in station trading, oh station trading has pvp too so theres the risk, you can lose a ton of isk in station trading, not to mention freighter ganks
Null anoms 120mil an hour max, in nullsec with a carrier. risk, you aint making more isk/hr in an ishtar than an incursion runner makes so stop being silly
pirate missions, unknown isk/hr in the middle of nullsec. risk, please let me know the isk/hr numbers you have got for running pirate lvl 4's.
FW missions, yes your right they do make more, in lowsec with risk, no doubt they will be getting nerfed at some point too
Null and low incursions, whats the point when the difference is hardly debatable compared to highsec.
Its already been explained you cant just "gank" an incursion fleet so the risk isnt really there, please explain how to gank an incursion fleet
Incursions are run by 1% of the playerbase yet make half the amount of isk the whole of nullsec makes, dont tell me highsec incursions dont pay out too much.
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Posted - 2015.11.20 10:52:19 -
[54] - Quote
StuRyan wrote:Quote:
Maybe you can expand on what you mean by "experience the game"? Highsec incursions remove the financial benefit of living in low or null, and therefore it removes a lot of players from these areas of space leading to fewer people in space to shoot at.
No it doesn't, incursions are on a "limited space" basis, in proportion only a very small number of people fly incursions. Did you not see the latest economy report? Clearly shows that null sec and low sec ISK faucets are still the biggest in the game. Like I said it's not HS that is killing null sec, your killing null sec from within. Quote:Not only that but the ridiculous isk/hr achievable means that to be competitive with other players in PvP you'll probably be flying a t2 or t3. Lowering highsec incursion payouts would lead to lower value ships being used more regularly and more target in dangerous space looking for riches. Why give people such a safe way to make isk and be surprised that they use it?
That ridiculous amount of isk/hr is achieved only when you have a large enough fleet and complete cooperation and coordination with everyone in that fleet. If one person doesn't pull their weight your ridiculous isk.per is seriously reduced, and BTW have you ever grinded through a TPPH wall? That's enough pain to also kill your isk/hour. Again, I will say, incursions are the only thing in the game that requires everyone to embody what an Eve player wants from a game. Quote:Let's just use a personal example of how incursions remove content. I recently skilled for marauders to run C4 wormhole sites; the price of a marauder and my fit was around 1.7b ISK. Now my options to make that ISK are plex, missions, WH sites, incursions, null anoms, or industry (there may be others). Out of those the best paid are incursions at ~120m/hr or group running (haven't bought the marauder at this point) C4 sites making less isk for more risk. So the best risk /reward option is to go back to highsec and run incursions until I can afford the marauder, meaning one less pilot out in WH space. It isn't just me who thinks this way and each one pilot in HS rather than elsewhere makes the game worse for everyone. No I actually think this is more to do with your playing style. And once again, you are not considering the ISK Sink of incursions. Quote:Edit: it is worth keeping in mind the vested interest of people who currently make loads out of incursions and don't want change. They like having nice toys with little time invested, as all of us do. However is having a blingy ship worth having a dead nullsec? NULL SEC ISN'T BEING KILLED BY INCURSIONS HOW MANY MORE TIMES DO YOU WANT ME TO TELL YOU THIS? IT'S BEING KILLED BY YOUR LACK OF WILLINGNESS TO CREATE CONTENT ON THE BASIS THAT YOU SIGN IN EVERY DAY IN SAFE SPACE DUE TO THE AMOUNT OF BLUES AND SIZE OF ALLIANCE.
Here you just assume everyone lives in sov space, take a look at it from an npc nullsec point of view and tell me if making isk in npc space is more worthwhile than highsec incursions
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Posted - 2015.11.20 11:28:37 -
[55] - Quote
StuRyan wrote:Lan Wang wrote:
Here you just assume everyone lives in sov space, take a look at it from an npc nullsec point of view and tell me if making isk in npc space is more worthwhile than highsec incursions
Yes, it's the same story: Firstly, it's your choice to live in NPC null sec. There are regions that you can make a lot of isk in, some regions have better true sec than sov space not to mention the vast amount of unused moons. Secondly, you're trading off, It's not like you own the space so why should you get anywhere near the same level of ISK faucets? Thirdly, you could live in NPC null in a 1 man corp and still get by.
hmmm you dont own highsec so why should you have faucets higher than sov?
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Posted - 2015.11.20 14:06:07 -
[56] - Quote
basically people in highsec need to start losing ships because goons are killing the price of bpc's 
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Posted - 2015.11.20 14:36:20 -
[57] - Quote
can someone show me how i can make 200mil an hour carrier ratting in null please
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Posted - 2015.11.20 15:11:20 -
[58] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:baltec1 wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:See above edit pls. Removing content is not something I like to see happen. Toning down the isk you can earn from them is a better option in my book. I don't run incursions atm, but if a certain big mouth keeps running her choppers off about making 200+ mill an hour blitzing hi-sec lev 4 missions then it may be only a matter of time before CCP decides to nerf Hi-Sec lev 4 missions. In case this happens I'd like to know that there is another casual (gameplay wise) alternative to making isk without playing with nullbears. Rather than asking for Hi-Sec incursions income nerf, wouldn't it better to request CCP to add Drifter null sec incursions that allows Caps & Supers and that pays out much more than hi-sec incursions?
because dropping supers anywhere without another 10 supers and subcap support is just stupid
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Posted - 2015.11.20 16:11:59 -
[59] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:Incursions can be balanced by just adding more of content in to them more spawns tougher ships spawn ranges/place changes....
Ignoring nerf em weeping for a second that is.
That way ppl that focus of those 1.5% can still got solid income and bigger chunk of those 1.5% will see drop in their wallet making curve.
Group pve content should stay in high sec and I dont rly care is it gonna be +ķansa incursions or not...but nerf ing them coz "mah bluesec" is sad really.
You have them there they pay more and more ppl can run them...but but...you say,don't care deal with it you did not go to bluesec to farm in the first place now did ya?
or just cut the income...
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Posted - 2015.11.20 16:23:22 -
[60] - Quote
StuRyan wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Mina Sebiestar wrote:Incursions can be balanced by just adding more of content in to them more spawns tougher ships spawn ranges/place changes....
Ignoring nerf em weeping for a second that is.
That way ppl that focus of those 1.5% can still got solid income and bigger chunk of those 1.5% will see drop in their wallet making curve.
Group pve content should stay in high sec and I dont rly care is it gonna be +ķansa incursions or not...but nerf ing them coz "mah bluesec" is sad really.
You have them there they pay more and more ppl can run them...but but...you say,don't care deal with it you did not go to bluesec to farm in the first place now did ya? or just cut the income... Income is fine the way it is. it is the reward for people playing the game the way CCP intend people to play the game, in a group. If more people ran HS incursions the income for single players would decrease.
income would be fine if incursion runners could be contested, but they cant, with the joys of npc corps and concord you are too safe for the isk.
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Posted - 2015.11.20 16:29:51 -
[61] - Quote
I dont think anyone is trying to force anyone to nullsec, why buff a whole part of space to keep the 1.5% of an unbalanced activity happy when you can just nerf the problem.
ccp have clearly said sansha incursions cant last forever
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Posted - 2015.11.20 16:41:42 -
[62] - Quote
StuRyan wrote:Lan Wang wrote:I dont think anyone is trying to force anyone to nullsec, why buff a whole part of space to keep the 1.5% of an unbalanced activity happy when you can just nerf the problem.
ccp have clearly said sansha incursions cant last forever SHOCK, HORROR, Incursions pay more in null sec.... SHOCK, HORROR most Null sec incursions don't mobilize becuase the inhabitants are too lazy to coordinate their own fleet. SHOCK, HORROR, its 3rd highest ink Faucet and the biggest ISK Sink in the game...
Payouts (i think this is old data though)
31,500,000 ISK and 7,000 CONCORD LP in highsec for up to 40 pilots (maximum payout).
45,000,000 ISK and 10,000 CONCORD LP for low- and nullsec.
13.5mil extra for risking a fleet of 40 pve ships in space where YOU WILL get hotdropped against just running them in highsec with concord protection and pretty much 0 risk. SHOCK, HORROR i know what id rather do
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
1895
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Posted - 2015.11.20 16:54:04 -
[63] - Quote
scouts dont show you the 60 man battleship fleet with triage support and dreads, doesnt matter how you paint it running them in highsec is more worthwhile
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
1896
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Posted - 2015.11.20 18:26:14 -
[64] - Quote
StuRyan wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:
Good to hear that CCP are aware of it, not so good that they've taken so long to notice the payouts are out of line but slow progress is still progress.
It's just another example of null sec influencing part of the game in the hope that is makes things more interesting for them because for some reason null sec is more special. Mr Mieyli wrote:
If I wanted to blob a nullsec incursion I would just cyno in nearby, it's not like a bunch of battleships are going to sneak away on me.
yeah all you have to do is warp to the fleet in a nearby pos. Mr Mieyli wrote:
High-sec does have some unique dangers in that you can't know if someone wants to gank you or not. Makes it hard to be prepared. Still, if I'm flying a vindicator around highsec I have a low chance of being ganked; if I flew it into lowsec or nullsec I would 100% certainly be pounced on by the first corp that saw me.
Pretty sure people do that just to create content for themselves. I'd be more worried as to why you were flying a vindi around in null sec without scouts if all you were doing was travelling around.
nullsec is more special buttercup
i think you are missing an important detail here you cant just throw up pos's anywhere you want (that costs money) and incursions move around, so how can a group of null players successfully run incursions constantly if incursions spawn in hostile space?
again 13.5mil extra isk cannot warrant the sheer risk involved in nullsec incursions compared to highsec, its not lazy its common sense
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
1897
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Posted - 2015.11.20 18:48:23 -
[65] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:13.5mill per member, per site. so lets be conservative and say 3 sites an hour. So that's 13.5 * 3 * 40. 1.62 bill per hour extra.
How much is a large pos and stront and fuel?
Also lol nullseccers complaining about logistics of setting up a single pos. What R Cynos.
It is amusing the arguments coming out.
cant light cynos in incursion systems, dont even know if you can setup pos's in incursion systems so thats a silly comment you still have the risk of being hellcamped on out gates by a load of battleships and supers, yeah cynos, all you need is a cyno on each out gate to ruin a nullsec incursion runners day, cant do that in highsec though huh
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
1913
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Posted - 2015.11.23 16:25:39 -
[66] - Quote
Acktose5123 wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I experienced the issue being discussed here last night, again. I'll recount it as it describes the issue perfectly.
So last night I'm playing EVE and chatting with my buddy in our personal channel (we were in Atlas and INIT together, now were in different alliances but still hang out together in chat with some other buddies from those days). He tried a bit of ratting and decided it was stupid, so he fired up his high sec incursion alt. He linked his Nightmare in chat and she is beautiful lol.
A while later (he's stopped talking to concentrate on running incursions, and for the record he was on the wait list for 4 minutes, got to love TVP) he says "ok, now that's better" and copy pastes his 31.5 mil wallet ticks.
While he's doing that I had to stop ratting because a Bastion fleet in Navy Harbs came though. Re-shiped into Cynabals and went after them, caught up to them in PFR space and had a 3 way skirmish. Didn't die this time, which is a wonder because i always die. So while i'm forced to quit ratting to defend my space, my buddy is pushing a pirate BS in high sec making more than I can make in Null while being protected by CONCORD and logi ships and not having to defend against anything.....
Now what I did I do instead of going back to ratting after the enemy threat was gone (where i was at least vulnerable to others, creating content)?
Yep,, you guessed it...I fired up the old Incursion alt. Fit for travel (i'd logged off in the old incursion focus) and went 26 peaceful jumps through high sec to reach the incursion, got on the automated watch list and was invited to fleet a whole 2 jumps before my destination.
2 hours later (when it was time to log off for bed, damn work the next morning) I was 252 million isk and 56000 CONCORD LP richer than i was before (of course I gotta wiat for the mom to pop to get the LP, but it's mine no matter what). Even with those 26 jumps factored in, that's better isk than i would have made ratting in null.
I was left with the same feeling as always...questioning WHY was I wasting my time ratting in Null (or rather , why was i MANUALLY ratting in null with a mach when I could have just done afk ishtars in null while I incursioned in high).
If you can read the above and not see a broken thing filled with adverse (ie backwards) incentives, you aren't paying attention. So you went from a solo PvE activity to a Fleet based PvE activity, and are surprised that it made more isk?
read the thread...such yawns
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
1917
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Posted - 2015.11.23 22:10:38 -
[67] - Quote
Acktose5123 wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Acktose5123 wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:the income that one can reach flying a single sub-capital in a high sec incursion I have yet to see an incursion being ran by a single sub-capital. And have you seen the fits on these incursion running boats? They cost as much as a carrier anyway (or more). I have one wallet (on the character that I run incursions with), there could be 7000 other people in that fleet, im running them for my wallet lol. I don't know why that is hard to understand when I have always talked about individual income matters. When im ratting in null I am also doing something that would not be possible were it not for thousands of other people. But as with incursions, that does not matter at all. As for fits, my incursion Mach costs a total of 1.3 bil (basically the price of a carrier hull). I've also run them in tech2 fit Scimitars that cost less than 250 mil. Because it doesn't matter who's wallet you're running it for, it still requires you to have a fleet full of people. I don't know why its so hard to understand that an incursion site is many times more difficult to run than your average nullsec anom. You say that ratting in nullsec is riskier, but that largely depends on where you are in null. I've been ratting in a carrier in nullsec for about 4 years now, and haven't had to dock / safe up but maybe a half dozen times. I've chosen to keep doing this over incursions because its easier than the hassle of putting up with incursion fleets.
you dont have to "safe up" in highsec incursions
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
1923
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Posted - 2015.11.24 19:35:17 -
[68] - Quote
if you are in sov nullsec you should not need to rely on srp, you get enough space to rat in, people also buy plex to buy ships so lowerin cost and grind just makes ccp lose money.
When i was in sov null i also noticed people not joining fleets because of no srp, its a pretty lame excuse tbh
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
1923
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Posted - 2015.11.24 20:32:49 -
[69] - Quote
god some people dont read...
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
1931
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Posted - 2015.11.25 14:01:03 -
[70] - Quote
what exactly does "contest" mean? you cant aggress another group so what are you doing?
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
1932
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Posted - 2015.11.25 15:36:13 -
[71] - Quote
Aquilan Aideron wrote:I doubt CCP agrees theres a problem with HS incursions, seeing that they deliberately located a high profit feature in an area accessible to all. Which, obviously, is the very idea of HS incursions?
if enough people moan about a thing then ccp will be forced to change the thing to stop people moaning about the thing
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
1932
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Posted - 2015.11.25 16:37:37 -
[72] - Quote
Amber Starview wrote:I will never vote to remove any content in eve .....if you think it's op then you are foolish to not be doing it yourself
Other than that eve needs more content not less .
yes lets all do incursions, everyone in eve for a week do incursions and see what happens.
Yes more content, make incursion runners be in corps so they can be wardecced like everyone else, same for lvl 4 missions
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the posing meat
FETID
1935
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Posted - 2015.11.26 09:12:47 -
[73] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:How about allowing Covert Cynos to be lit in HS Incursion Systems?
That could be fun.
what are blops going to do against an incursion fleet?
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the posing meat
FETID
1935
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 09:49:22 -
[74] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:This thread has gone from remove hi-sec incursions into nerfing all hi-sec income into the ground.
It's an all nullbear crybabies rantfest now and should be locked down.
Reporting this garbage thread for ranting!! I don't know what you mean, the discussion has been focused around incursions this whole time. It's very difficult to argue against a brick wall, not that you are a brick wall but others in this thread are in so much denial it's almost funny. I don't know if they realise that the income we're talking about is completely imaginary. It's tough not to rant when you're saying the same things again and again and people just say "but muh isk". I was actually referring to Jenn since she is the source of all the ranting! All her posts should be deleted!!
atleast its constructive unlike your own posts
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
1935
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 13:40:15 -
[75] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:This thread has gone from remove hi-sec incursions into nerfing all hi-sec income into the ground.
It's an all nullbear crybabies rantfest now and should be locked down.
Reporting this garbage thread for ranting!! I don't know what you mean, the discussion has been focused around incursions this whole time. It's very difficult to argue against a brick wall, not that you are a brick wall but others in this thread are in so much denial it's almost funny. I don't know if they realise that the income we're talking about is completely imaginary. It's tough not to rant when you're saying the same things again and again and people just say "but muh isk". I was actually referring to Jenn since she is the source of all the ranting! All her posts should be deleted!! atleast its constructive unlike your own posts You are correct......because I'm not a ranter. There is no such thing as a constructive post in a rant thread.
Highlighted your own rant for ya ok
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
1937
|
Posted - 2015.11.26 16:42:30 -
[76] - Quote
Aquilan Aideron wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:And yet on any given day only 1.5% of players will engage in this activity that pumps out the 3rd largest isk faucet in the game (when ii takes WAY more people the generate the 1st and 2nd).
But somehow that's ok but it seems to an uniformed person that CCP seems to be catering to the high sec crowd. They aren't btw, Incursion runners are HARD CORE players farming in multi billion isk ships casual can't afford, the isk for those ships usually coming from null sec because a huge portion of incursion runners are null sec alts. Join any TVP or WTM fleet and ask on their comms if you don't belive this.
That poses a problem for all mmo. 24/7 "hardcore" multi-acc cashing etc etc players will always generate the most ingame currencies. What should be the recourse of the devs? Starving the game of worthwhile content/events? What if CCP nerfs incursions? Would it keep these people from overblown isk generation elsewhere? Personally, I dont want to see the game deprived of content, of features and ideas, because some folks are mmo overachievers. If things are that bad CCP should introduce a cap for incursions, sure. Perhaps a dev might want to acknowledge the topic to validate the concerns.
your not depriving the game of content though, nerfing the income does not deprive anyone of content only isk
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
1939
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 12:16:38 -
[77] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Cool, thank you!
Assuming the info is correct, it seems then, that HS Incursions, HS Lv.4 Mission Blitzing, NS Carrier Anomaly Ratting and NS DED Exploration are pretty much on par, payout wise.
I do think this is still a bit odd, considering that - boredom aside - in HS you can run missions/incursions 16 hours a day, non stop with minimal risk, whereas in Nullsec, interruptions are bound to happen. Stupidity aside, you will not lose the Carrier*, but you will at some point have to dock, and potentially reship and fight, and while doing that, not make any money. Let's be realistic, folks - risk in Nullsec is not that high. Correct me if I am wrong due to living in a fortress.
So far, I'd say balance is only slightly off. Not as bad, however, as one could assume it is when reading this thread. (again: assuming the info is correct)
Next are W-Space sites. Pretty much the same as for nullsec applies for W-Space as well - some dude logs in in your hole or strolls into it, and you may have to postpone the jewing for a while. At a first glance, those numbers look ridiculous. 200-400M/h? But I wonder - how realistic is the notion of running C5 Sites for hours on end, as can be done with incursions, missions and NS anomalies. Would be nice if a Hole-Dweller (or are they called "Worms"?) could shed some light on this. My endeavours to W-Space have been rather short, and never took me anywhere beyond Class 4.
What really strikes me as not very accurate and potentially out of balance is "Faction Warfare: 50-200 mil per hour. Varies wildly with faction levels, luck, etc. Consider hostiles as well." for Low Sec. Any insight on how that goes? Average would be 125M, which would still be on par with about everything else. How realistic is it to reap in 200M/h 16 hours a day?
In my opinion, Trading, Mercenary work and other things where goods and money come from other players do not count. If people are willing to give you a trillion ISK for whatever you do - all the power to you! This discussion should only focus on activities aiming at "generating" goods and ISK from thin air.
So far, I do not see a reason to "End HS Incursions" or even hit them with the Nerf-Club too hard. A slight reduction in HS income in general does sound reasonable, though.
*) I have yet to lose a Ratting Carrier, or even just an AFKtar after almost 3 years of anomaly running. It will happen eventually, but if it does, it will be because I have fallen asleep in Space. Players organize fleets and do incursions because of the high payout, if this activity is nerf then players would stop doing them. As for hi-sec missions, the only faction you can run for that pays well are SOE and Thurker Tribes. The other empire faction isk/LP conversion rates are pathetic in comparison and are pretty much ignored. The only corrections I see to be made their is the revamping of the LP stores (like removing or lowering tag requirements for certain items) and making missions unblitzable. That and I wouldn't be against CCP making a grandeur version of incursions exclusively for null space that spawns at least 2 mega incursions in each region per day.
Is there really a downside that some people will stop doing incursions if payouts lowered? probably only the vets who have ample amounts of isk will quit, new players will probably find something else to do.
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
1939
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 12:27:04 -
[78] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Neuntausend wrote: Let's be realistic, folks - risk in Nullsec is not that high. Correct me if I am wrong due to living in a fortress. Risk in null can be very low. In some cases, lower than some systems and activities in highsec. However, the difference between risk in null and risk in high (just to compare two extremes) is that low risk in null is bought about by players actively managing the risk. Low risk in highsec is inherent to the mechanics of the game. Low population in null also contributes to low risk, although in many cases players need to manage hazards as though they exist because of roaming gangs, etc. even in systems with low activity. That's where a lot of the argument comes from in this thread. That for the equal reward, there is a large difference in the hazards that need to be managed. So through the thread, there has been an argument to either nerf the income from incursions in highsec, or keep the income the same but increase the hazards associated with running incursions, with the most common suggestion being to remove or delay CONCORD in affected systems. A lot of it is based around the view that a lot of highsec incursion runners are alts of nullsec players and that if the rewards in HS are reduced, or risks to manage increased, then these players will play more on their nullsec characters. If that happens, then incursion fleet places will open up for pure HS players and nullsec will have an increase in activity. Win-win for everyone in a Utopia. Risk in null can be low, the few weeks I spent there. The only thing that was a potential threat was the odd red scout checking out the system, so all we had to do was fly to a POS, report it and wait a few minutes until they left again. Which probably ties in with what was being said as the systems were very low population ones. So keeping an eye on local chat was all you really had to do.
yeah if you stay in the same system then risk is low sometimes, till you meet the npc null people like pizza who will place a covert cyno alt in every system you rat in and kill capitals and ratting ships daily, its not very safe if you have to take a 2bil isk marauder or carrier 6 jumps through hostile space to finish an escalation, bubbles, blops roaming fleets etc etc.
Its also not safe to do incursions in null/low because they move around so they are pretty much unfarmable like they in highsec, not to mention the gate rats will tear anything you fly apart if you jump into an incursion.
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
1940
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 13:26:21 -
[79] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Avvy wrote:
Risk in null can be low, the few weeks I spent there. The only thing that was a potential threat was the odd red scout checking out the system, so all we had to do was fly to a POS, report it and wait a few minutes until they left again. Which probably ties in with what was being said as the systems were very low population ones. So keeping an eye on local chat was all you really had to do.
Which is way more effort than one has to do in high sec. That's the point. Except for most of the time you can't use Local Chat as an intel tool against threats in High-Sec. You don't know how many of the 100 in local are Talos gank alts... in Null, your threat levels are given to you by default of what corp/alliance you are in. Try harder.
are you really trying to say highsec incursions pose more risk than nullsec?
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
1943
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 13:40:14 -
[80] - Quote
Stick to market selling mcalt
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
1944
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 14:15:21 -
[81] - Quote
Aquilan Aideron wrote:Solution seems simple. Dont bring down higsec, instead raise nullsec?
Yet people crying about highsec shows what this trollfest is about.
Doesnt really seem logical to change everything around an issue when you can just change the issue itself, id love for you work for me seems like you would do more work than required.
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
1944
|
Posted - 2015.11.27 14:21:34 -
[82] - Quote
not just talking about nullsec here we are talking about null and low and the risks compared to just doing it in highsec
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
1944
|
Posted - 2015.11.28 00:13:00 -
[83] - Quote
nerfing it will cause nullsec players to not bother with them and the people who really want to do them will have more chance and less waiting, whats the issue?
Drinking rum before 10am makes you a pirate, not an alcoholic | Angel Cartel | Serpentis |
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